A look at Abrahamic Religions — 4

Part One is here.

Part Two is here.

Part Three is here

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A friend of mine from Lahore was here and staying at our place. She asked me about Gog and Magog (Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj, in Arabic) … and what the Abrahamic Religions had to say of them. So that's where I will be heading this time, but here's a small preamble that is important.

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If we are to consider the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic religions Abrahamic, there must be something that is similar among them. Abraham, of course, stands as the Father of all three religions and so do many of the texts in the books that are often similar and, at other times, differing in their details but common.

Jews don't accept the Catholic or the Protestant versions of the Old Testament Bible (yes they are different, too), except for the first 5 books which the Jews consider the Jewish Bible: the Torah. They obviously do not accept the New Testament at all.

The Christians accept the Old Testament (OT) - except for the number of books that the Catholic Version has, as opposed to the Protestant Version. But both sectors accept the New Testament (NT) - a collection of the Jesus's Ahaadiths and a few Epistles and other stuff that were put together 70 years onwards after Christ's Death (and Resurrection). But they do not accept the Muslim book, the Qur'an, as a religious work at all.

Most Muslims accept all the books given above. The Qur'an is their book and the others are mentioned in the Qur'an. Although there is a difference in how one interprets the aayaahs: There is a Saheefaé Ibrahim mentioned in Qur'an and becomes another book (apart from the one mentioned below) that is no longer available.

Almost all Muslims believe that there are 4 Books mentioned: Torah, Züboor, Injeel, and the Qur'an. Some members of a Muslim sect, however, also believe that Qur'an was not mentioned at all, because ''we are reading it and accept it as the word of Allah. The fourth book is really Saheefaé Ibrahim''. The Khalafiyya Shias (now extinct)- who believe in the importance of Fives - correctly believe there are 5 books mentioned in the Qur'an.

In addition to the total absence of Zuboor, a book sent to Hazrat Dawood (the OT's Psalms of David allegedly contain some of it), there is the Qur'anic saying that Jews and Christians have altered their works in many places. Often the Qur'an corrects it. Here is a basic example:

Exodus [20.11]
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Qur'an [50:39]

And verily, We created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six periods, and no weariness touched Us.

A major difference lies in the Muslim and Christian understanding of Injeel (the word in English is Evangelism, which means Good Tidings). The Christians believe that Jesus gave them the Good Tidings of the world coming to an end when we would all be with God. Muslims believe that this was a book sent down to Jesus and the Good Tidings were about the coming of the final prophet.

The Christians do not accept that a book came down to Jesus, at all. In fact my teacher, a priest at my school, said Jesus IS God so there was no reason for a book to be sent by Himself to Himself. The Qur'an says there was such a book. A major dispute, here!

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Let us now get back to Gog/Ya'jooj and Magog/Ma'jooj

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Let's start with the Qur'anic beliefs, since they apply to the majority of my readers and to, specially, my friend.

Chapter 18 Surah Kahf:

94 They said: "O Dhül-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (people) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?"
95 He said: "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labor): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:
96 "Bring me blocks of iron." At length when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain sides he said "Blow (with your bellows)." Then when he had made it (red) as fire he said: "Bring me that I may pour over it molten lead."
97 Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.

Chapter 21 Surah Anbiyaa:

96 Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier) and they swiftly swarm from every hill.
97 Then will the True Promise draw nigh (of fulfillment): then behold! The eyes of the unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay we truly did wrong!"

Who is Dhül-qarnain? The translation of the term is 'the one with two horns' and is accepted by many Muslims as Alexander the Great because he wore a Skull Cap that had 2 horns on it. However, there is another school that believes that it is Cyrus the Great and you can see a Video about it here.

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The Jewish and Christian stories differ strongly from the Cyrus story and have Alexander as the King.  According to Muslims these books have been changed over time. The stories in both (Jewish and Christian) books are heavily contradictory within themselves.

1. Gog and Magog appear in the Hebrew Bible as individuals, peoples, or lands. Yes. All three are mentioned and they change after a few chapters.

2. In Ezekiel 38, Gog is an individual and Magog is his land.

3. In Genesis 10 Magog is a man, but no Gog is mentioned.

4. Centuries later Jewish tradition changed Ezekiel's Gog from Magog into Gog and Magog. This is the form in which they appear in the Book of Revelation, although there they are peoples rather than individuals.

5. A legend was attached to Gog and Magog by the time of the Roman period, that the Gates of Alexander were erected by Alexander the Great to repel the tribe. Romanized Jewish historian Josephus knew them as the nation descended from Magog the Japhetite, as in Genesis, and explained them to be the Scythians.

6. In the hands of Early Christian writers they became apocalyptic hordes, and throughout the Medieval period variously identified as the Huns, Khazars, Mongols, Turanians or other nomads, or even the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.

7. The legend of Gog and Magog and the gates was also interpolated into the Alexander romances. In one version, "Goth and Magoth" are kings of the Unclean Nations, driven beyond a mountain pass by Alexander, and blocked from returning by his new wall.

8. Gog and Magog are said to engage in human cannibalism in the romances and derived literature.

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I presume these tales and legends, as well as the beliefs from which they come, should answer my friend … and any others who are interested in religious geography, history, and legends that spring around them later.

A look at Abrahamic Religions — 3

Part One is here.

Part Two is here.

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There are several blasphemous, ridiculous, and violent stories in the Old Testament, something that no god could have Written, while several people think it was Sent Down, Dictated, or He Inspired people to write. Here are a few for those who do not have/read the Bible. It is also aimed at many Christians who read it and gloss over these stories, try to forget about them, or say they now follow what's in the New Testament only.

In case of Roman Catholics, they believe that the Pope has a link with his God (Jesus) and has conversations* with Him. Some of these conversations make the Popes change their beliefs accordingly: Galileo is one case in point.

•

I'll just stick to a few them

but if you really want to know more

you can read Robert Ingersoll and others.

Oh, but was an Atheist?
Hmmm.
Ok!

Listen to Bishop John Spong, then.

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At the beginning in Genesis we have several examples.

The most important ones after the Creation Stories, where YHWY does not know that the Sun is also a Star — (OT Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.) — are the Creation of Adam and Eve, who ate a fruit (now translated as Apple) at the Snake saying so, and were banished from Heaven. The most true part in this is the Man blamed the Woman, never agreeing to take the blame on himself :)

Those tales about Satan coming as a Snake is a bit odd since I can't believe if Eve spoke Cobranese (or whatever) or the Snake spoke Aramaic or some other language. How did they communicate?

What is most peculiar is that God said they can eat any fruit from every tree, except this particular one. (OT Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.)

Satan said He is lying.
They won't die.

They took the risk. And ate it. And lived.

Does that prove that Satan was right? I wouldn't argue.

Another peculiarity has me completely befuddled. God did say there was ONE tree. Not TWO. Just one tree. But look at this part that follows the above in Genesis:

3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Errrr … "one of us"? Haéñ. I thought there was just One God.

Even in the First Commandment to Moses he said "Thou Shall Have No Other Gods Before Me" (Does that mean we can have others in line after Him.)

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Of course Adam and Eve had children. Abel and Cain were their sons. (There are stories that they had a sister called Aqleema. Fahmida Riaz has written a wonderful poem about her. Google it.)

At some point Cain got upset and killed Abel. (Does that mean we are all children of the murderer? I hope not.) 

Anyway, let's see what Genesis 4 says.

4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod.

4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch …

So there were other women in Nod? Hmmm. Who were her parents? If they were not Adam and Eve's children, that doesn't make those two the only first human couple at all. Unless God (although He hasn't said this in the Old Testament) made more people and put them in different parts.

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Leaving other stories aside,

let us turn to Genesis 6.

6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Sons of Gods?
Looking at Daughters of Men?

Isn't that a part of what we (now) call 'mythologies'?

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See what this is followed by:

6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (Well, not really, but anyway - we can skip that.)

6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Even more like those mythologies!

6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

…

Amen!

•

*

(We mustn't forget that

President Idi Amin also spoke to Allah

and

President Bush the Younger also spoke to Jesus)

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Four books I read recently …

Brilliant Graphic Novel.

Something that many of my young friends should read

and also think of 'Growing Up in Pakistan',

as well as their future careers and their parental pressures.

Midhat was a friend of mine.

His (and Basarat's) daughter has written

a brilliant book.

TZH is a Pakistani Theoretical Physicist

and is a String Theorist.

I hope she comes to T2F for a 'Science ka Adda' session.

The book covers the most important ideas in Science

and, written as a Fact/Fiction piece,

it takes you through the passion of science.

Read it!!!

An inspiring book that addresses a lot of questions

that the young ask, given the way that the present day

forced Religious Instruction in Educational Institutes

plus the madness that current terrorists offer.

An Atheist Muslim

takes you through a Muslim/Atheist view.

The book is not likely to be available in Pakistan

but an Urdu translation is being considered.

It will also be available in an English Audiobook.

I wish people would read this and answer

some of his questions and queries.

AB, who's Fun Home was a bestseller graphic novel,

runs a series of cartoons that have to do with Dykes.

This is one such collection.

It is remarkably good and, unless you think you shouldn't

be reading this, I'd strongly recommend it.

On the other hand

I wouldn't advise young people to read this.

Not yet, anyway!

Marrying Ahlé Kitaab …

Many times I have heard that Muslim men can marry Ahlé Kitaab women who can remain under their Jewish or Christian religions, but Muslim women cannot marry Ahlé Kitaab men who want to continue to be Jews or Christians.

Not only has this been repeatedly told by mullaas as well as their non-mullaa ilks, like Zakir Naik, but it is also referred to in most Muslim families by parents and grandparents.

I have looked over the net and found several pieces supporting this attitude … but almost everyone says that the idea comes from Hadees. Considering that not every sub-sect believes in Ahaadees, and some sectors believe in a different section of Ahaadees, this cannot be the final ruling. I really wanted a Quranic ruling that can be applied to all Muslims.

Discovering that many people mentioned above also quoted the Quran as the source, I asked them for the relative passages and this is what I got:

First: I was told that it was in Surah 2 Aayah 221 which is quoted here:

This is talking about polytheists and not the Ahlé Kitaab who believed in one God. And it says so for 'your women' (and in a couple of translation as 'your daughters'). That makes it clear that it did not prevent women from marrying an Ahlé Kitaab, nor did it say she must force the man to convert.

Second: Other friends and their friends also quoted a more pertinent item, Chapter 5 Verse 5

Here it says in the second part that one can marry a chaste woman from among the believers but also from those who were given the Scripture before the Muslims. The people say that the Ayat is meant for man … and not for women.

Rather strange, I thought, because we often talk of Mankind (and other similar phrases in other languages) — but always refer to Men and Women. When I said this to them, I was told, "This is your poor interpretation". — Ok, then! But lets read the first part of the Ayat again:

Does that mean that since its in the same Ayat that - according to them - applies to Men, the food restriction is not for Women and she can, if she wants, have a different type of food from Men? Obviously not!!!

I shall be really obliged if some of you with a better understanding of the Qur'an than myself would please advise me about two things:

(1) The Qur'an offers advice fairly often to Men, but Women are - inclusively - supposed to follow the Ayat (we can find instances all over the Qur'an of this). Is this a linguistic problem, as I think, and not a gender-based one. That in most cases (unless specifically stated in the verse) the Qur'an is for all genders.

(2) Is there a verse in the Qur'an that says — differently from the two quoted above — Ahlé Kitaab men must convert to Islam before they marry a Muslim women? Or is that a Sünnah (which all Muslims must follow). Or is it based only on a Hadees.

Perhaps under the Comment section here you could respond. Thank you.

Update

Take a look at this piece

Read (and hear) this — and tell me what you think

I am not a believer in supernatural things

but I had to write this … and play two audios for you.

•

Perhaps you can tell me what you think is wrong.
Or right.

•

I had a maid that we employed.

Her name is Zahida.

She has a husband and several children.

The children include a married daughter … who has 5 children.

This daughter had terrible anaemia

and has been given blood several times.

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But that did not cure her 'actual' problem …

A few months ago Zahida took leave to go to a Pir Sahab's Dargaah because her daughter was now speaking in a lisping voice and made strange noises. The girl said in a pseudo-masculine voice: "I am a 'Hindu' who has taken possession of this girl".

Every time there was a Qavvaali she'd listen for a bit and go into a Dhammal (a dance that happens at every Pir's grave) and would fall flat on her back by somersaulting really high. No hurt, though. She'd get up and do it again. And again. Until she fell asleep. Then the 'Hindu' would go away and she'd wake up and speak normally for a bit. Then the 'Hindu' would be back.

I told her, "Pir to mar gaé haéñ. Voh küchh naheeñ kar saktay. Doctor kay pass jaao." (The Pir is dead. He can't do anything. Go to a Doctor.)

My wife also set an appointment for her to visit a Psychiatrist. But Zahida said that Doctors can't help. "Yeh to 'andar' ki cheez haé." (This is an 'inside' problem.)

Zahida's husband had been well and used to drive a borrowed Motor Rickshaw. He had suddenly stopped eating - except for very small things - about 7 months ago. He was getting weaker. He left the Rickshaw and refused to work, lying in bed all the time. Made the family even poorer. That was another thing that the 'Pir Sahab' had to 'cure'.

Zahida left and came back.

This is what she said.

A few days later she brought her daughter to my house. She spoke with a childish lisp. Often it was difficult to understand. I said at one point , "Tüm zameen par baéth jao, baytee". (Sit down on the floor, girl.) She yelled, saying "Maén 'Hindu' mard hooñ. Baytee kyooñ kah rahay ho?" (I am a Hindu Male. Why are you calling me a girl?)

An hour later Zahid came up and asked me to play Qavvaali music as the girl wanted it and was shouting in the kitchen. I went down and put on my iPod. Within minutes she started trembling and then started to jump. I saw her do this three or four times. She'd somersault really high and land on her back … and then would do it again.

I came up (also feeling a little scared that she'd damage hair back). After 20 minutes Zahida came and said I should shut off the music as she was asleep. I did. In a few minutes she woke up and held her mother and said "Chalo". (Let's go!)

A month later Zahida went back to the Pir with her daughter.

When she came back, this was her story.

I am still sure that this is not really possible.

The beatings and the cruelty that the daughter received at Pir Sahab made her scream … but the Pir said (and Zahida thought) that it was the 'Hindu' that was screaming. Imagine being beaten with your hand twisted behind your back. Constant pushing and thumping on your head and back. Hitting.

The chimgaada∂ story is a figment of Zahida's imagination (as it was for the attending team). That's obvious. But was the girl putting all this on? Was the father putting all this on, now that he is well again and has got a job?

Sounds so strange.

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As far as I am concerned, Zahida firmly believes everything that has happened … and says so. The Pirs are tricksters, there is no doubt. Nothing will help the girl in the long term, I am sure.

Unless she is somehow part of the trick.

•

FOUR MONTHS LATER UPDATE

Zahid says her husband is well.
So is her daughter.
The Pir Sahab's Chayla (Student!) has done his work.

•

I await your response!

A look at Abrahamic Religions — 2

Part 1 is here in case you missed it.

•••••

Let's take a further look at the whole Old Testament (OT). I'll start with Genesis since that applies to Jews and Christians alike, with both claiming that it was dictated by their Gods. I have used the plural version (Gods) because they are not the same: YHWH (although pronounced 'Yahweh', the vowels are never written down) is the Jewish God; Jesus is the Christian God.

[Given the fact that Allah, the 'Muslim God', is also different from the other two mentioned above, I wonder how these religions are considered to be similar when their very basis is different. But that would lead us to other stories about Ibrahim/Abraham or Ahlé Kitaab - so let's forget about it here. Maybe you can ask some scholar for their views. Mohammad Sheikh's video about Ahlé Kitaab, for example, is totally different from what the majority of Muslims believe.]

As a starting book of the OT (and as part of the Pentateuch) it has several errors in it. While I accept that it has changed, anyone changing a religious work - unless s/he is evil - is more than likely to remove the 'bad' or 'inaccurate' parts, if any, and make the book even better. This certainly did not happen in this book. I can't believe that these changes were made by scholars or believers۔ Let me start with Chapters 1-5 of Genesis in this post.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

There was Light and Dark? Really? These are effects that take place as the Earth revolves around itself and continues to do so around the Sun. But this goes on until this happens:

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,
15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.
16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

Well, the lesser light (the Moon) doesn't agree with God and comes out, fairly frequently, in the day time. This is apart from the fact that it's actual Light is its reflection of the Sun.

17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth,
18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness.
And God saw that it was good.
19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Genesis 2

It took 6 days to create all this.

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.

Rested? Does he get tired?

I mean, it's not physical labour for him, no.

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Of course there are other things to Create, too.

So let's have a Creation Story. Right.

Oooops!

Genesis begins with two contradictory creation accounts.

In the first creation story,

humans are created after the other animals.

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [Genesis 1:25-27]

In the second story,

humans were created before the other animals.

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. [Genesis 2:18-19]

In the first creation story,

the first man and woman were created simultaneously.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [Genesis 1:25-27]

In the second account,

the man was created first,

then the animals,

then the woman from the man's rib.

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. [Genesis 2:18-22]

•••••

There is a small problem, here, too. For Genesis 5.2 states that He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Adam” when they were created.

Rabbinic discussions about the two versions of Creation and 'the androgyne' can be found in Genesis Rabbah and Leviticus Rabbah, which are collections of midrashim (ancient writings attached to the Bible by Jews) about the books of Genesis and Leviticus. In Genesis Rabbah the rabbis wonder whether a verse from Psalms offers insight into the first version of Creation, perhaps indicating that ‘adam was actually a hermaphrodite with two faces':

“You have formed me before and behind’ (Psalms 139:5)… Rabbi Jeremiah b. Leazar said: When the Holy One, blessed be He, created the first ‘adam, He created it with both male and female sexual organs, as it is written, ‘Male and female He created them, and He called their name ‘adam, (Genesis 5:2). Rabbi Samuel b. Nahmani said, “When the Holy One, blessed be He, created the first ‘adam, He created him with two faces, then split him and made him two backs – a back for each side.” (Genesis Rabbah 8:1)

OK!

•••••

By the way, I am not even counting another story in which Adam has a wife before Eve. Her name was Lilith.

Here's Lilith for you. 

Though Lilith is not mentioned in the Torah/OT, this is how she is described in the Jewish tales:

According to the Alphabet of Ben Sira, Lilith was Adam’s first wife but the couple fought all the time. They didn’t see eye-to-eye on matters of sex because Adam always wanted to be on top while Lilith also wanted a turn in the dominant sexual position. When they could not agree, Lilith decided to leave Adam. She uttered God’s name and flew into the air, leaving Adam alone in the Garden of Eden. God sent three angels after her and commanded them to bring her back to her husband by force if she would not come willingly. But when the angels found her by the Red Sea they were unable to convince her to return and could not force her to obey them.  Eventually a strange deal is struck, wherein Lilith promised not to harm newborn children if they are protected by an amulet with the names of the three angels written on it —  

“The three angels caught up with her in the [Red] Sea…They seized her and told her: ‘If you agree to come with us, come, and if not, we shall drown you in the sea.’ She answered: ‘Darlings, I know myself that God created me only to afflict babies with fatal disease when they are eight days old; I shall have permission to harm them from their birth to the eighth day and no longer; when it is a male baby; but when it is a female baby, I shall have permission for twelve days.’ The angels would not leave her alone, until she swore by God’s name that wherever she would see them or their names in an amulet, she would not possess the baby [bearing it]. They then left her immediately. This is [the story of] Lilith who afflicts babies with disease.” 

(Alphabet of Ben Sira, from "Eve & Adam: Jewish, Christian, and Muslim Readings on Genesis and Gender" pg. 204.)

Some tales tell us that Lilith changed her form into a Serpent and came to Eve and Adam to ask them to eat the fruit that God had said they shouldn't.

 

Just remember that He said to them that they could eat everything except fruit from that one tree. You may be surprised (as were they, perhaps) later.

•••••

More next week!

A look at Abrahamic Religions — 1

I was brought up in a Sunni Muslim household, but my grandfather's second marriage (after my grandmother died) was to a (Twelver) Shia lady, so I had enough on my plate to see both sides of the view. My father, who was once a strong Atheist up to his late 40s, slowly became a very strong believer, later. However, he was an avid reader and allowed me to read all sorts of books, which included religious works as well as Freethinking authors.

At school I was very interested in the Bible … which was taught to us by a Catholic Priest, as we could not have a copy of the Bible. Why? Because it was among the books that were not allowed for people to have. Only Priests were allowed to have them, because there were things in it that "the people would have misunderstood the book", as my Vice Principal, Father Todd, said to me. Actually, in the 1229AD Council of Toulouse one of the items was this:

Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.

The Church forbade Catholics from reading the Holy Bible by placing it on the index of Forbidden Books. The Bibles placed on the Index of Forbidden Books were also Protestant Bibles that lacked 7 books and/or were badly translated versions of the Bible. Soon after Pope John XXIII announced Vatican II in 1962, the Bible became something that Catholics could buy (but, preferably, not read without a Priest being present, as I was told by a Catholic friend).

•••••

Later on, after I went to sea in the Merchant Navy, I decided to read most religious books in a Chronological Order (as far as one could determine the dates). These and the works of Toynbee and Durant were remarkably good. As were Bertrand Russell's works. My time at Sea was absolutely amazing!

So here I am, trying to write down a few things that many people, including close family and  friends,  are unaware of or seem to misunderstand because of the various peculiar stories. I will also quote some parts from the Jewish and Christian Holy Books.

At later blogs I will also choose some of our own stories from the Qur'an … and some myths that have arisen within the Muslim subsects.

The Holy Qur'an

•••••

The majority of Muslims believe that there are Four Books that Allah sent:

1. Züboor: Hazrat Daüd/David's book — a small part of which is in the Old Testament (OT). 
2. Taoraét (Torah): the first 5 books of the OT, also known as the Pentateuch. The word Taoraét means 'Laws' — Generally accepted as the word Allah gave to Hazrat Müsa/Moses.
3. Injeel: Which refers to the New Testament (NT). The word Injeel means 'Glad Tidings' (Evangelism comes from this) — Generally accepted as the word that Allah gave to Hazrat Isa/Jesus.
4. The Holy Qur'an.

A smaller sect among Muslims believes that since this belief part is written in the Qur'an, there is no reason that it should name itself, since 'we know' that Qur'an is the word of Allah. The Four Books, according to them, are the ones that Qur'an mentions: Three first books mentioned above the Qur'an in my earlier para — and one that came before all of them — The Book/Scripture of Hazrat Ibrahim/Abraham, which is no longer available to us.

Quranic Verse Surah 87 Aayaas 17-19

But the Hereafter is better and more enduring.

And this is in the Books of the earliest (Revelation),

The Books of Abraham and Moses.

Quranic Verse Surah 53 Ayaa 37

And of Scripture of Abraham who fulfilled all that Allah ordered him.

•••••

The OT has many more books apart from the Pentateuch, of course. OT contains 39 (Protestant) or 46 (Catholic) or more (Orthodox and other) books, divided, very broadly, into the Pentateuch (Torah), the historical books, the "wisdom" books and the prophets.

One story, given further rise by Voltaire, was that the number of books in the Bible were decided in the Nicene Council in 325AD. Part of the idea was that many books were placed on top of each other and the ones that fell were discarded. This is untrue, though people still use this story without knowing the facts. It actually took many centuries when all this happened.

The Nicene Council, that gave rise to the Nicene Creed, was an ecumenical meeting that decided many things, of which the most important were these:

1. Jesus Christ is described as "God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God", proclaiming his Divinity. (# This means that he is not just God, but also the Son of God.)

(Note: The Council of Constantinople (now Istanbul) was convened by Emperor Theodosius in 381AD. It further affirmed the divinity of the Holy Spirit, which up to that point had never been clearly stated anywhere in the Scripture.)

2. The view that 'there was once that when he was not' was rejected to maintain the co-eternity of the Son with the Father.

3. Independence of the Jewish calendar and worldwide uniformity, were the only rules for Easter explicitly laid down by the Council.

There were many other orders, among which was a prohibition of Usury. This was different from Interest according to some documents. A loan may be considered usurious because of excessive or abusive interest rates. There may be other factors, too. In Pakistan and other Muslim countries Usury is taken to mean Interest. Usury is prohibited in many Christian countries but many of them look at it differently from Interest.

Here's are two pieces from Wikipedia that show that it was permissible in lots of areas. 

Certain negative historical renditions of usury carry with them social connotations of perceived "unjust" or "discriminatory" lending practices. The historian Paul Johnson, comments:

Most early religious systems in the ancient Near East, and the secular codes arising from them, did not forbid usury. These societies regarded inanimate matter as alive, like plants, animals and people, and capable of reproducing itself. Hence if you lent 'food money', or monetary tokens of any kind, it was legitimate to charge interest. Food money in the shape of olives, dates, seeds or animals was lent out as early as c. 5000 BC, if not earlier. ...Among the Mesopotamians, Hittites, Phoenicians and Egyptians, interest was legal and often fixed by the state. But the Hebrew took a different view of the matter.

Jewish Laws allowed it with foreigners and not other Hebrews: 

The Hebrew Bible regulates interest taking. Interest can be charged to strangers but not between Hebrew.

Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.

Deuteronomy 23:20 Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.

•••••

The Holy Bible has many versions that various sects of Christians follow, but let me stick to the one that I know well — The King James Version — when I quote from it. I will, of course, include the Pentateuch in it, so that my Jewish friends are included.

•••••

The books of OT obviously do not have Jesus in them and the Jews do not recognise him as a Prophet or God Incarnate. The OT & the NT has nothing about Islam's Prophet, so the Jews and the Christians do not accept him as a Prophet, either. The Qur'an, however, recognises many Prophets from the OT and accepts Jesus as a Prophet. The Muslims, however, do say that the OT/NT have been altered heavily and are not in their original form.

The current understanding by scholars is that OT was written over a long time — the rough dates are given here. This, of course, does not make OT the Word of God. However the Pentateuch (The books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) is supposed to be the Word of God according to Jews/Christians. It was written, according to researchers, in 1445BC to 1405BC, by Hazrat Musa/Moses. 

I find this rather odd, since God could not have ordered Moses to write the last lines of Deuteronomy.

Chapter 34

The Death of Moses

Then Moses climbed Mount Nebo from the plains of Moab to the top of Pisgah,across from Jericho. There the Lord showed him the whole land—from Gilead to Dan, all of Naphtali, the territory of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the Mediterranean Sea, the Negev and the whole region from the Valley of Jericho, the City of Palms, as far as Zoar. Then the Lord said to him, “This is the land I promised on oathto Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when I said, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not cross over into it.”

And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said. He buried him[a] in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone. The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moabthirty days, until the time of weeping and mourning was over.

Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the Lord had commanded Moses. 

Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, who did all those signs and wonders the Lord sent him to do in Egypt—to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land. For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel.

•••••

An Important Note

Most Muslims sadly believe that, in Christianity, Jesus is the Son of God. Actually they are unaware of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity ("threefold"), which defines God as three consubstantial persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; that is "one God in three persons". 

Here is a popular figure from one of their school books.

Some of the most popular hymns talk of Hail Mary, Mother of God.

•••••

Bowled Over by Imran Khan!

A Picture of IK that caught Dr. Israr's attention.

•

Israr said that women should not be allowed

to watch a Cricket Match since

the bowlers actions

[s]excite them.

•

I loved IK when he was a Cricketer.

I hated him since he moved into politics.

I really couldn't stand his views on youths and women.

(Strangely, both vote for him.)

•

These quotes are from an old interview in

The Friday Times

(Jan 19-25, 1995)

Parliamentary System

Parliamentary system of democracy is nonsense. I am asked why I do not enter politics. I say that for a start I don't believe in getting into a system in which you have to pay exorbitantly to get elected. Secondly, this party system parliamentary democracy, this is just nonsense.The discipline of the party system means that sometimes you have to compromise, you have to lie in public. Therefore only a certain kind of personality is suited to this system and I cannot be part of it. I'm much better outside politics.

The current leaders haven't a clue which way they are taking us. Someone at the top has to set an example, and then be determined to set things straight. If you paid bureaucrats a better salary, for example, they would collect taxes. Their salaries are unrealistic in the first place. So they become corrupt. l don't want to talk about solutions, or what system would be best for the country because I don't want to get into politics. Every government has asked me to join them and I have always refused.

Karachi's Youths

The reason people here wear trousers and shirts is to show that they are a degree better than the common man. I am ashamed to see the upper class youth of Karachi, for instance. What relevance have they to Pakistan? If you left them in a village they would probably get lost.

The West & Us

Familly is their biggest weakness. Our strength is our family system. While I was in university I read Germaine Greer‘s "The Female Eunuch" and thought women‘s lib was right. I now realise that it's impractical.

[The women] are all on diets and half of them have anorexia. In discos, all the fat women sit on the side and get drunk and depressed.

If reducing clothes means progress then that should mean that the African tribes are very progressive!

I said [in an earlier interview] that having lived in the west I have seen its strengths and its weaknesses. Their strengths are. meritocracy, justice, human rights, and so on. Their weaknesses, their biggest threat. is the breakdown of the family. This is a direct consequence of immorality. Since the sex drugs and rock n roll revolution of the 60s, I myself have seen the breakdown of the family. And then women's lib, which has degraded the status of mother, they say why should we stay home and look after children when we can go out and work too. In other words, motherhood, which is looked up to in our culture, is nothing in the west. As a result their family life has broken down. When men and women both go out to work, soon there is a divorce. How is the home to be run? Degrading the mother's role plus sexual permissiveness has led to the mess that the west is in right now.

l would like to see women have all the rights given to them by Islam. ln my view, men and women are equal but different. What western women's lib is trying to prove is that they‘re the same. They're trying to compete with men. This was never meant to be, it was a complimentary role and never a competitive role. The biggest damage that women's lib has done is to destroy the family. All my friends in the west are divorced.

Men & Women

Men and women are supposed to have complimentary roles, the basis of which is that only women can be mothers. A man cannot change nappies. It is not possible for a man to manage a house. If a woman wants to pursue a career then she shouldn't have children. If you want to have children. then you have to have a woman at home. One has to provide and one has to look after the kids and it cannot be the man who looks after the kids!

Gays

The limits of freedom have gone too far. For instance, I disagree with gays getting married. This is against the norms of civil society.

Rape

The problem here is that the weak are oppressed, not women in particular, that is all lies. When Veena Hayat was raped the government almost fell, but when a poor woman is raped, no one cares. Think about the poor man whose wife is raped. imagine what he goes through! 

•

Done!